Question:

I find it amazing the number of people who will say "it must be true, I read about it on the Net".  It can be people who are quite responsible otherwise.  It’s that lack of the the "ymmv" at the end of everything that can cause problems.  I wonder how many lurkers have been led astray by bad advice from this newsgroup.

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely!  We’re were talking about this re another issue at a dinner party last night.  I was in the company of many well educated, intelligent people — more than a few with PhDs — about the internet report that the moon was going to be frickin’ HUGE on Wednesday night — four times its size, so big that the sky would be illuminated like daylight, on and on and on.  All of them believed it BECAUSE they had either read it on the internet or got an e-mail from someone they respected who had read it on the internet.  It’s fine to be an idiot about something as harmless, but when it comes to health issues, it’s a whole other thing.  But I think it’s not only the lack of ymmv but sometimes, the ADDITION of ymmv that causes problems.  In other words, it does seem to me that people can make any damn foolish assertion they want, and as long as they add "ymmv" to it, they’ve got a "home free" pass.  Like saying, "whenever I use aspartame, I seem to get a headache, but ymmv" is a whole different statement from "aspartame gave me a brain tumor, but ymmv".   Wendy

Response:

I hadn’t thought of it that way.  I guess I have always looked at a "ymmv" similar to any disclaimer that may be posted.  I guess I haven’t seen anyone who uses ymmv too off the wall. The things that bother me are those posts (or people) who come on as being Mr. well educated scientist then they spit out something that is totally wrong and misleading.  While those of us who regularly read things have already formed opinions about other regulars who post here, the lurkers are the ones who would be effected. I really do wonder how many diabetics have ran to their doctors saying that human insulin is bad.  They ask, why do you feel that way?  "because I read about it on the Internet".  I’m not talking about the personal anecdotes, but the ones with all sorts of statistics and "proof".  No wonder some docs have the attitudes they do <groan There was a chain letter going around not too long ago.  It was about a little girl with cancer and how the American Cancer Society would donate so much money for each person the email was forwarded to (yeah, right).  In the long list of quotes were all sorts of statements from people who said "this one is for real", even as close as two recipients before me (a name I recognized).  There was a hospital and doctor’s name at the end even a phone number.  So, I checked it out.  Of course, the phone number was a disconnected number and no such doctor or hospital existed.  I think folks believed it because it "sounded" real due to the doc’s name on it.  Made it is back to the idea that if a doc says it, it must be true. — Marilyn Type 1 for 33 years, Minimed pumping for the last 11

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find it amazing the number of people who will say "it must be true, I read about it on the Net".  It can be people who are quite responsible otherwise.  It’s that lack of the the "ymmv" at the end of everything that can cause problems.  I wonder how many lurkers have been led astray by bad advice from this newsgroup. Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely!  We’re were talking about this re another issue at a dinner party last night.  I was in the company of many well educated, intelligent people — more than a few with PhDs — about the internet report that the moon was going to be frickin’ HUGE on Wednesday night — four times its size, so big that the sky would be illuminated like daylight, on and on and on.  All of them believed it BECAUSE they had either read it on the internet or got an e-mail from someone they respected who had read it on the internet.  It’s fine to be an idiot about something as harmless, but when it comes to health issues, it’s a whole other thing.  But I think it’s not only the lack of ymmv but sometimes, the ADDITION of ymmv that causes problems.  In other words, it does seem to me that people can make any damn foolish assertion they want, and as long as they add "ymmv" to it, they’ve got a "home free" pass.  Like saying, "whenever I use aspartame, I seem to get a headache, but ymmv" is a whole different statement from "aspartame gave me a brain tumor, but ymmv". Wendy

Response:

I find it amazing the number of people who will say "it must be true, I read about it on the Net".  It can be people who are quite responsible otherwise.

I never say this, but I DO say "I saw something on the Net last night…" which has the same veracity level as "I made something up last night…".  I’ve wrangled with co-workers over things they’ve read in Reader’s Digest or saw on "20/20" and they’re convinced they’ve heard the entire story.  Perhaps they’ve lost the ability to differentiate between the "good" feeling you get when you know you’re hearing the truth, and the "good" feeling you get when you’re being told that you were right all along about something.  People have never been very good at this, but I think we’re getting worse. I get hoaxes all the time via email because no one took 10 seconds to check it out before passing it on. There are urban myth sites all over the Net to check if an email "warning" is a hoax.  Also, the major antivirus software companies have anti-virus sections on their web sites that explain about the current and past "virus" hoaxes. The difficulty is finding the truth when someone wants you to know the truth, and someone else doesn’t want you to know.  I spent an hour last week researching the Canadian health care system, and I’m no closer to the truth than before: opinions/facts were always split on polar opposites. Wouldn’t that make a good class in high school to teach both how to use the Internet and how to research?  Have an "Ask Jeeves" kind-of site where you’d ask questions, and the students would try to find the "truth".  You would have to screen out multiple-YEAR projects like "Was the civil war about slavery or states rights?" (I learned when I lived in Texas that the answer to this question depends on how far North you live).  But easier ones like "What was Ronald Reagan’s spy name when he was helping the FBI find Communists among his fellow actors in the 1950’s?" would require more than just searching a periodical index, and you’d know it when you found it. (Answer: ‘Source T-10′) And you may be asking yourself "What does all this have to do with diabetes?"  I’m glad you asked. As a group, I think we have a heightened appreciation for "truth", and a greater dismay at being lied to.  We know that the secret of staying in control of our bodies is a) not to lie to ourselves, and b) not to allow others to lie to us.  That gift that everyone else takes for granted called " a normal lifespan" is now something we have to EARN! Is that a hoot or what?  We begin to earn it by not lying to our doctors and not lying to ourselves. Hmmmm…this post has triggered a whole bunch of ideas…what lessons do we learn from diabetes…."Everything I Ever Needed To Know I Learned From My Glucose Meter"….I’ve got some typing to do! Thanks for listening. — **** Darryl **** T2, XL 5mg, R & N Before you buy.

Response:

Like saying, "whenever I use aspartame, I seem to get a headache, but ymmv" is a whole different statement from "aspartame gave me a brain tumor, but ymmv".

I was mugged by aspartame. Aspartame wrote me a bunch of bad checks. Aspartame stole my girlfriend. Aspartame was the leader of the trenchcoat mafia. I was doing 105 MPH on the highway because someone put aspartame in my gas tank. YMMV.  Mine sure did. (Every time I see YMMV, I am reminded of "YHWH".  Except that if you say one, you might be struck by lightning, and if you DON’T say the other, you might get burnt by flames!  Cute, huh?) — **** Darryl **** T2, XL 5mg, R & N Before you buy.

Response:

<snip (Every time I see YMMV, I am reminded of "YHWH".  Except that if you say one, you might be struck by lightning, and if you DON’T say the other, you might get burnt by flames!  Cute, huh?)

What is YHWH? — Marilyn Type 1 for 33 years, Minimed pumping for the last 11

Response:

That gift that everyone else takes for granted called " a normal lifespan" is now something we have to EARN! Is that a hoot or what?  We begin to earn it by not lying to our doctors and not lying to ourselves.

eadred has been compelled to live a more disciplined life because he has been afflicted with type 1 insulin dependent diabetes as well as an adverse lipoprotein profile. what i would like to see him acknowledge is the role i have taken in assuring his survival.   i feel cheated by him of my credits for licking his forehead to ascertain if he were high or low in blood glucose levels when he collapsed in that time now lost to recollection when home blood glucose monitoring was but a dream. i have had to be strong enough to carry a comatose diabetic to a neighbour s house and ask for help in driving him to the hell hole tallahassee memorial hospital has become.   he demeans my great ability to kick and wail and rave and rant until he receives appropriate care at the hands of wildleigh incompetent medicos.   as a shakesperean declamatory school trained actress and dramaturg i can create quite a scene in my railway child outfits, compleat with pantaloons, feather hats, and tasteful long flannel nightgowns.   if i were richer i would be termed eccentric. instead i am gringo loco. Hmmmm…this post has triggered a whole bunch of ideas…what lessons do we learn from diabetes…."Everything I Ever Needed To Know I Learned From My Glucose Meter"….I’ve got some typing to do!

i will read whatever you write on this complex topic.  i like the way you organise your ideas. Thanks for listening.

with pleasure, melee — melynda reid  who wears hats but does not type caps               as she hates to commit a capital offense i remain a shy and retiring artist without portfolio seriously seeking homeo stasis oh whither art thou homeo??? the over forty wicked wackey mermaid revue has just begun. stay attuned for the next episode..

Response:

(snipped for emphasis only)   We know that the secret of staying in control of our bodies is a) not to lie to ourselves, and b) not to allow others to lie to us.

Wow.  Whole lot of stuff right there.  Delve into either of the choices and you might come up with the secret for a happy life.  Not just a happy, diabetic life. Thanks.  I love it. Judy Type 1  25+ years 48 years old

Response:

what i would like to see him acknowledge is the role i have taken in assuring his survival.   i feel cheated by him of my credits for licking his forehead to ascertain if he were high or low in blood glucose levels when he collapsed in that time now lost to recollection when home blood glucose monitoring was but a dream.

Good point, Melee.  Some of us definitely recall the times we made no sense and had to be carted away by someone else. I remember one time when Dave called the life squad, back in about 1976 or so, I was having a hell of a hypo.  Not passed out, but close.  (I think I told this one before)  I was lying in the bed, Dave was stamping around and pacing, and one guy was trying to get a pulse and the other was trying to get a BP.  And I was lying there listening with my eyes closed.  The one said to the other, There’s no pulse.  The other said, There’s no BP.  I remember hearing a moan from the side of the room Dave was in.  Our daughter was 2 at the time and he was hugging her. Then I opened one eye and told them they should try again.  Both of the guys fell off the edge of the bed.  Dave started laughing.  They bundled me up and off to the hospital. Interesting, when I remember it, though, Melee.  I am, in no way, feeling any sympathy for me for experienceing the hypo, but for Dave having to be conscious during all of it.  I continue to have pain for the worries I put Dave through.  And continue to do.  I am always sorry that he is not married to a healthy, curvaceous, wonderful woman.  And here’s the funny part.  Dave thinks he is.  I am sure that your Ed feels the same as I.  So very sorry for all he has put you through.  And I bet he has never forgotten, not even for a second. Thank God that for most of us, those memories are in the far past.  The ole glucose monitors are a godsend, just wonder what point he/she was trying to make by waiting for so long with it. For Ed, I will say, Thanks Melee, Most of us would not be alive today if we did not have those such as you by our side. Judy Type 1  25+ years 48 years old

Response:

<snip (Every time I see YMMV, I am reminded of "YHWH".  Except that if you say one, you might be struck by lightning, and if you DON’T say the other, you might get burnt by flames!  Cute, huh?) What is YHWH?

The "unspeakable" almost symbol-like reference to God used by the early Hebrews.  Also spelled YAHWEH. Irreverently, kinda like the artist once known as…

Response:

(Every time I see YMMV, I am reminded of "YHWH".  Except that if you say one, you might be struck by lightning, and if you DON’T say the other, you might get burnt by flames!  Cute, huh?)

Definitely!  You are one funny guy — thanks for the laugh! Wendy

Response:

As a group, I think we have a heightened appreciation for "truth", and a greater dismay at being lied to.  We know that the secret of staying in control of our bodies is a) not to lie to ourselves, and b) not to allow others to lie to us.  That gift that everyone else takes for granted called " a normal lifespan" is now something we have to EARN! Is that a hoot or what?  We begin to earn it by not lying to our doctors and not lying to ourselves.

Great post, Darryl.  I think that distinguishing "what’s so" in the universe — the truth of things — versus our (or others’) opinions, beliefs, hopes, fears, is the single most difficult task we undertake as human beings.  We are in the unfortunate position of having our lives depending on those distinctions. Wendy

Response:

<snipped for length As a group, I think we have a heightened appreciation for "truth", and a greater dismay at being lied to.  We know that the secret of staying in control of our bodies is a) not to lie to ourselves, and b) not to allow others to lie to us.  That gift that everyone else takes for granted called " a normal lifespan" is now something we have to EARN! Is that a hoot or what?  We begin to earn it by not lying to our doctors and not lying to ourselves. Hmmmm…this post has triggered a whole bunch of ideas…what lessons do we learn from diabetes…."Everything I Ever Needed To Know I Learned From My Glucose Meter"….I’ve got some typing to do! Thanks for listening. —

Darryl, I think you made some pretty good points here.  At least it made me stop to think how much I have lied to myself over the years and how many times others have lied to me (on purpose or not).  Thanks. — Marilyn Type 1 for 33 years, Minimed pumping for the last 11

Response:

I really do wonder how many diabetics have ran to their doctors saying that human insulin is bad.  They ask, why do you feel that way?  "because I read about it on the Internet".  I’m not talking about the personal anecdotes, but the ones with all sorts of statistics and "proof".  No wonder some docs have the attitudes they do <groan

Obviously none of the 2000 patients have mentioned this to Dr. Biggs. <Snipped examples of stupid internet scams that idiots fall for Ken    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

Then this turns into a hacker show. They make the statement that diabetes kills more people than AIDS.

I’m not sure whjat a hacker show is, but the above statement is true. I researched for an article on diabetes a couple years ago.  At that time the numbers of deaths from AIDS had dropped to about 40,000 annually, with 200,000+ deaths due to complications of diabetes. And that 200,000+ doesn’t figure in those that died of heart disease and so forth where diabetes wasn’t mentioned on the death certificate…

Response:

There was another episode wherein the plot hinged on a non-diabetic who was taking insulin to lose weight.  He supposedly injected insulin after a heavy meal to "burn up" the calories, Yeah, right. Dick Evans Wouldn’t a non-diabetic release glucagon from the liver to prevent such a low bg? What actually would be recation? Would,t that actually hmake him gain weight?

According to a bloke I know, who’s into bodybuilding, the use of insulin (Humalog) is getting to be very common at the gym. It allows/requires the "gymnast" to eat HUGE quantities of food which is subsequently used as energy and enables long periods of exercise. Without the exercise I would imagine a lot of Michelin-like men coming out of the gym. Beav

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There was another episode wherein the plot hinged on a non-diabetic who was taking insulin to lose weight.  He supposedly injected insulin after a heavy meal to "burn up" the calories, Yeah, right. Dick Evans Wouldn’t a non-diabetic release glucagon from the liver to prevent such a low bg? What actually would be recation? Would,t that actually hmake him gain weight? According to a bloke I know, who’s into bodybuilding, the use of insulin (Humalog) is getting to be very common at the gym. It allows/requires the "gymnast" to eat HUGE quantities of food which is subsequently used as energy and enables long periods of exercise. Without the exercise I would imagine a lot of Michelin-like men coming out of the gym. Beav

When I was about 5 yrs old  back in the mid 50’s i was very underweight. My doc gave my parents some medicine to take and gave me some shots. As far as we can trace back, it was either insulin and/or steroids.  anyways, within a year i had more than doubled in weight and it kept going up. So from a scrawny 5yr old, i became the biggest 7 yr old. (this also happened to be when we moved out of my grandparents house- so i suspect that was also a factor). well it has been an uphill battle to control the weight ever since. The same doctor did give some of us football players in high school steroids and was subsequently punsihed with loss of license and awated jail when he died. he kept very poor records so we never found out what happened and what he really gave anyone. We did have an undefeated two years at football and wrestling.But i now feel that all that contributed to a weight battle and now the diabetes.

Response:

I cannot fathom why you take these shows seriously, since they are supposedly for entertainment.  They take the plots and special effects to achieve some sort of story, and usually the facts are so full of holes, that a real diabetic wonders what he is really suffering from.  Come on, get real!!

There was a time when a person only had to separate "fact" from "fiction".  Anything on the radio or television was either one or the other.  Even books in the library fell into one category or the other. Now people are less able to differentiate between the two due to poor education and training, and to make it worse, no generation has had to deal with MORE information that this one.  We are constantly flooded with information from television and the Internet, and some of it is disseminated by foolish people who THEMSELVES can’t tell if it is true or not, and some of it is put out by people who stand to profit from you being misled by the message. Remember when daytime talk shows educated people by discussing issues? Remember "Donahue"?  Now we have Jerry Springer, where the advertisers kiss our asses by finding the dregs of society, and displaying them to show how well we’re all dealing with our problems.  "After all", we say, "at least I’m not on Jerry Springer!". Remember when "60 minutes" dug up scandals?  Now tabloid trash like "Dateline" CREATE their own scandals!  Wire a road flare to the gas tank of a Chevy pickup and it explodes in a collision! Not only is it harder to tell if something is true, but we don’t even CARE as much anymore if it is true or not. I could mention several issues, and I’m sure most of you could too, where laws were passed because of public opinion, not science or reason.  And television shapes public opinion. Let’s look at Charles Dickens.  There’s a nice Christmas-y topic.  You could read "A Christmas Carol" and say "Oh, that’s just entertainment".  But it helped shaped the way people viewed poverty. — **** Darryl **** T2, XL 5mg, R & N Before you buy.

Response:

This all started due to a post about an "Emergency!" episode on TV land showing diabetes in a bad light. It just so happens that I have seen a couple of shows this week that included diabetes. It is fiction, but sometimes these shows are where some people get all of their information about diabetes. I think also that the fact Baywatch was far more accurate than Law and Order was very impressive. LONG LIVE BAYWATCH! Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Two diabetics die in a diabetic hospital in one night. One of them had a bg level of 9mg/dL. The doctor claims she has never seen a level that low. She then claims that the death could have been caused by too much insulin, or contaminated insulin. The next day, three patients have gone into diabetic hypoglycemic comas, all at the same hospital. I think this show needs a diabetic consultant. It ends up that there is a computer virus in the main computer that analyses the bg readings, and it picks certain diabetics to give false high bg readings. It changes the bg reading to read 4 times higher, so the diabetics get 4x the insulin. Some of the diabetic info is a little off, but believable to a non diabetic. Then this turns into a hacker show. They make the statement that diabetes kills more people than AIDS. Diabetics have been getting plenty of air time this week! Ken I cannot fathom why you take these shows seriously, since they are supposedly for entertainment.  They take the plots and special effects to achieve some sort of story, and usually the facts are so full of holes, that a real diabetic wonders what he is really suffering from.  Come on, get real!! The millenium arrived a year early. . .

   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I cannot fathom why you take these shows seriously, since they are supposedly for entertainment.  They take the plots and special effects to achieve some sort of story, and usually the facts are so full of holes, that a real diabetic wonders what he is really suffering from.  Come on, get real!! There was a time when a person only had to separate "fact" from "fiction".  Anything on the radio or television was either one or the other.  Even books in the library fell into one category or the other. Now people are less able to differentiate between the two due to poor education and training, and to make it worse, no generation has had to deal with MORE information that this one.  We are constantly flooded with information from television and the Internet, and some of it is disseminated by foolish people who THEMSELVES can’t tell if it is true or not, and some of it is put out by people who stand to profit from you being misled by the message. Remember when daytime talk shows educated people by discussing issues? Remember "Donahue"?  Now we have Jerry Springer, where the advertisers kiss our asses by finding the dregs of society, and displaying them to show how well we’re all dealing with our problems.  "After all", we say, "at least I’m not on Jerry Springer!". Remember when "60 minutes" dug up scandals?  Now tabloid trash like "Dateline" CREATE their own scandals!  Wire a road flare to the gas tank of a Chevy pickup and it explodes in a collision! Not only is it harder to tell if something is true, but we don’t even CARE as much anymore if it is true or not. I could mention several issues, and I’m sure most of you could too, where laws were passed because of public opinion, not science or reason.  And television shapes public opinion. Let’s look at Charles Dickens.  There’s a nice Christmas-y topic.  You could read "A Christmas Carol" and say "Oh, that’s just entertainment".  But it helped shaped the way people viewed poverty. — **** Darryl **** T2, XL 5mg, R & N Before you buy.

Something you mentioned, but did not expand on was the mention of the Internet. I find it amazing the number of people who will say "it must be true, I read about it on the Net".  It can be people who are quite responsible otherwise.  It’s that lack of the the "ymmv" at the end of everything that can cause problems.  I wonder how many lurkers have been led astray by bad advice from this newsgroup. — — Marilyn Type 1 for 33 years, pumping for the last 11 Before you buy.

Response:

Two diabetics die in a diabetic hospital in one night. One of them had a bg level of 9mg/dL. The doctor claims she has never seen a level that low. She then claims that the death could have been caused by too much insulin, or contaminated insulin. The next day, three patients have gone into diabetic hypoglycemic comas, all at the same hospital. I think this show needs a diabetic consultant. It ends up that there is a computer virus in the main computer that analyses the bg readings, and it picks certain diabetics to give false high bg readings. It changes the bg reading to read 4 times higher, so the diabetics get 4x the insulin. Some of the diabetic info is a little off, but believable to a non diabetic. Then this turns into a hacker show. They make the statement that diabetes kills more people than AIDS. Diabetics have been getting plenty of air time this week! Ken    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Response:

There was another episode wherein the plot hinged on a non-diabetic who was taking insulin to lose weight.  He supposedly injected insulin after a heavy meal to "burn up" the calories, Yeah, right. Dick Evans

Wouldn’t a non-diabetic release glucagon from the liver to prevent such a low bg? What actually would be recation? Would,t that actually hmake him gain weight? Mic  http://hometown.aol.com/miclac2/myhomepage/profile.html  Give the gift of life.  Be an organ donor.  Tell your kin.  Smile

Response:

That show along with Chicago Hope are notorius for stretching medical fictional license to extreme. They have no idea how some of it propagates urban legend and indirectly adversely affects organ donation rates. Mic  http://hometown.aol.com/miclac2/myhomepage/profile.html  Give the gift of life.  Be an organ donor.  Tell your kin.  Smile

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Two diabetics die in a diabetic hospital in one night. One of them had a bg level of 9mg/dL. The doctor claims she has never seen a level that low. She then claims that the death could have been caused by too much insulin, or contaminated insulin. The next day, three patients have gone into diabetic hypoglycemic comas, all at the same hospital. I think this show needs a diabetic consultant. It ends up that there is a computer virus in the main computer that analyses the bg readings, and it picks certain diabetics to give false high bg readings. It changes the bg reading to read 4 times higher, so the diabetics get 4x the insulin. Some of the diabetic info is a little off, but believable to a non diabetic. Then this turns into a hacker show. They make the statement that diabetes kills more people than AIDS. Diabetics have been getting plenty of air time this week! Ken

I cannot fathom why you take these shows seriously, since they are supposedly for entertainment.  They take the plots and special effects to achieve some sort of story, and usually the facts are so full of holes, that a real diabetic wonders what he is really suffering from.  Come on, get real!! The millenium arrived a year early. . .

Response:

The next day, three patients have gone into diabetic hypoglycemic comas, all at the same hospital. I think this show needs a diabetic consultant.

There was another episode wherein the plot hinged on a non-diabetic who was taking insulin to lose weight.  He supposedly injected insulin after a heavy meal to "burn up" the calories,  Yeah, right. Dick Evans

Response:

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