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Denial of HIV Treatments
Question:
[ Swinburne is not my last name...] By the way what is your real name, since it is not Swineburn?
It’s not a big deal, but they made it one. Then I realised that orthodox congregations have no scientific answers to the questions put to them, and have to search desperately for some kind of personal attack and not even having a name to go on was an irritation to them. So it seemed best to keep it like that. The more confused they are, the better for everyone. And I still hope some no-brained "HIV" believer will eventually put his money where his mouth is and take up a bet. They are all a bit warier now, having seen Harris lose all his but without admitting it, so all bets are off in the world of "Aids" belief. As soon as I take one of them for a few thousand in the local currency, I can buy Wally some books and he will learn to save his life. I still think that is a Good Cause, strangely. John — "There is this terrible fear throughout the field that it will be discovered we have been walking down the wrong route all these years and advising people to do things which will turn out to be the wrong things. I think about quitting all the time." UK "Aids" industry worker’s letter to Neville Hodgkinson, author of _AIDS: The Failure of Contemporary Science_
Response:
[ Swinburne is not my last name...] By the way what is your real name, since it is not Swineburn? It’s not a big deal, but they made it one.
If it is not a big deal, then why do choose to post your garbage anonomously? Admit that your name is John Swinburne. Matt Taylor
Response:
It appears th treatment activist community is getting just a bit fed up with the uppity John Swineburn! The fangs are bared! Are they? Great! (But not my last name, incidentally.)
That is because your last name is Swinburne. Matt Taylor
Response:
Are they? Great! (But not my last name, incidentally.) That is because your last name is Swinburne.
Wanna bet? I bet you $10,000 it isn’t. Come on boys, take a gamble! Why are you all such wimps? My name, my "HIV status", my Fallacious Theory of Health, my "socialist right-wing psychofundy etceteras", my career as a journalist with US tabloids, and so on. Put your money where your feet are. You are a lot of Big Girls Blouses. Your testicles are the size of mustard seeds. Your camels piss in your tents. You are so ugly, when you were born, the doctor slapped your mother. John — "I’m so sorry! What language are you talking now? It appears to be BOLLOCKS!" Victor Meldrew, One Foot In The Grave
Response:
You are a lot of Big Girls Blouses. Your testicles are the size of mustard seeds. Your camels piss in your tents. You are so ugly, when you were born, the doctor slapped your mother.
Sorry I had to let you through the kill file for the above. You should have a stand-up routine on the late show. I have never heard such orginal put-downs. Gosh, I’ll just die laughing. By the way what is your real name, since it is not Swineburn? AC Kirk
Response:
That well known reputable source of information about "Aids". With its illustrious contributors from the world of "Aids science".
Yes, John. The very one. Wally
Response:
: What next, guys? subpoenas to Fred Shaw? Californ? Todd Miller? : Peter Duesberg? Richard Strohman? Kary Mullis? Celia Farber? : Bob Guccione Jr. John Lauritson? : : Or perhaps a blanket suppoena covering all "dissidents " will do? : What a great idea. An opportunity to see how convincing the dissent really : is in open court. I could not wish for more. I consider it an honor to be on the list with many of these individuals. Many of them argue for the truth to come out instead of it being twisted and buried. They point at those things that HIV apologists don’t want to face, the glaring issues being sweeped under the carpet. Just what have I done which has caused me to be included with these courageous people? Perhaps my suggestion that people with HIV consider avoiding the immunosuppressive chemotherapies and instead "hit ‘em hard" with medically supervised immune-building nutritional support and exercise regimens? Perhaps it was my discussion that much (not all) of what has become the AIDS phenomenon is a plethora of non-medical drug use in disguise. Or maybe that AIDS research look with with more vigor at all the things which could cause false positives on HIV antibody tests. I feel *so* bad at these attempts to get closer to the truth. Maybe I was wrong in assuming that that was what we all cared most about here. : You really don’t want things like death from liver toxicity from those : "miracle" protease inhibitors to become general public knowledge, : do you? Peter Duesberg becoming a household name? ( No doubt : your worst nightmare) : I think we can cope with the liver toxicity. I know I’ve had to, but hey, : it’s better than being dead! If you have no liver function it’s *the same* as being dead! : : Now just relax, take a deep breath, tuck that subpoena in the bottom : drawer, repeat after me; $15000 per year times 300,000 taking drug : combos, $15000 per year times 300,000 taking drug combos…… : Sure the pharmaceutical giants are about to become even more lucrative. : They have posted good profits now for decades. Check out Fortune 500 : sometime. Nonetheless, if their shit don’t work, then the customers will : be dead and dead customers can’t buy their products. It is not in their : financial interests to produce drugs that will accelerate people’s journey : to the grave. : AC Kirk That people may be helped to their graves is *not* a serious challenge to the financial interests of drug companies. Dead people are unlikely to do any picketing or start up any lawsuits. Dying people don’t usually have the energy or the money to pursue such lawsuits, either. Californ
Response:
What next, guys? subpoenas to Fred Shaw? Californ? Todd Miller? Peter Duesberg? Richard Strohman? Kary Mullis? Celia Farber? Bob Guccione Jr. John Lauritson? Or perhaps a blanket suppoena covering all "dissidents " will do?
What a great idea. An opportunity to see how convincing the dissent really is in open court. I could not wish for more. Be careful what you wish for. Are you sure you want the current status quo of AIDS Inc. to start getting scrutiny in open court?
Oh, yes please. I think that the evidence is overwhelming in 1997 that HIV causes AIDS and that HIV is spread through the exchange of bodily fluids. Further we may even find that science has developed treatments that prevent HIV from reproducing and causing damage to the immune system. You really don’t want things like death from liver toxicity from those "miracle" protease inhibitors to become general public knowledge, do you? Peter Duesberg becoming a household name? ( No doubt your worst nightmare)
I think we can cope with the liver toxicity. I know I’ve had to, but hey, it’s better than being dead! Now just relax, take a deep breath, tuck that subpoena in the bottom drawer, repeat after me; $15000 per year times 300,000 taking drug combos, $15000 per year times 300,000 taking drug combos……
Sure the pharmaceutical giants are about to become even more lucrative. They have posted good profits now for decades. Check out Fortune 500 sometime. Nonetheless, if their shit don’t work, then the customers will be dead and dead customers can’t buy their products. It is not in their financial interests to produce drugs that will accelerate people’s journey to the grave. AC Kirk
Response:
Sure the pharmaceutical giants are about to become even more lucrative. They have posted good profits now for decades. Check out Fortune 500 sometime. Nonetheless, if their shit don’t work, then the customers will be dead and dead customers can’t buy their products. It is not in their financial interests to produce drugs that will accelerate people’s journey to the grave.
Seems you don’t understand how pyramid schemes work. By the time American sacrifices reach half a million, a shrewd operator may have ten times that many on the drugs. By the time the drugs get a grip on *them*, the further expansion offsets any losses from the death of early victims. It all depends on people being predictably stupid. And no one giving the game away. [ Pity about the Internet. Can't think of everything. But at least the press are still docile. It might yet work. ] John — "We have also not been able to discover why doctors prescribe a toxic drug called AZT (Zidovudine) to people who have no other complaint than the presence of antibodies to HIV in their blood. In fact, we cannot understand why humans would take that drug for any reason." Kary B. Mullis, Nobel Laureate, chemist.
Response:
"himself" science — or human nature either, for that matter — and has list would actually listen to him, and forgo real doctors’ advice on hos posts anonymously, with no indication of his credentials, and an obvious
Oh no, another one! It must be the warm weather bringing them out. left on earth, it’s not enough to waste the seconds it takes reading his pass over anything with the rubric ‘himself’. However much time I have falsifications, delusions, and diatribes. He has no understanding of
While you think about that film, I’ll get us some drinks. I might give you another clue in ten minutes. Or I might not. See? sign his real name. I think he must be genuinely afraid that someone exactly what he is doing. If he really believed anything he said, he’d will find out who he is, and deliver a pack of his murderous advice to
They only had these. Now, any ideas yet? Alright, a clue. The action is set in Vienna. You should get it now. vocabulary? Not even the most desparate and troubled, I would.
He’s running down now. They ask them to sit down when they start shouting and waving like that. Can we leave? best to deal with HIV infection. Would you take the advice of a man MMM
Is that it? Seems to be, they’re helping him off. Let’s go. John — WHAT, as to the quality of solidity, imperviousness, and firmness, are facts? Hard. And as to temperature? Cold. With what do facts share this quality of frigidity? Print. To what do hard facts belong? The situation. And to what does a cold fact belong? The matter. What must we do to the hard facts of the situation? Face up to the hard facts of the situation. What does a cold fact frequently do? Remain. And what is notoriously useless as a means of altering the hard facts of the situation? All the talk in the world. Is this killing you? It certainly is. The Myles na gCopaleen Catechism of Cliche "The Best of Myles", Picador.
Response:
It appears th treatment activist community is getting just a bit fed up with the uppity John Swineburn! The fangs are bared!
Are they? Great! (But not my last name, incidentally.) Is Charlie McCarthy the ventriloquist or the dummy?
He is the orifice into which the ventriloquist inserts his hand. Threats of subpoenas! Wow! You vill accept our views und you vill like it!
I have received no such threat. However, I am studying the magnificent McLibel Trial, where there are many useful precedents. At some point (perhaps very soon) matters must be put in train. The instant the litigation hits the fan, they are done for. The evidence is overwhelming, and they know it. John — "Taxpayers, and HIV positives and their relatives, potentially constitute the most explosive opposition to the AIDS establishment. As the failures of the war on AIDS mount up, the size of the imminent backlash grows; the longer AIDS officials resist the inevitable, the harder they will fall. Time, therefore, has become our most valuable ally." Prof. Peter Duesberg, "Inventing the AIDS Virus"
Response:
[edit] At some point (perhaps very soon) matters must be put in train. The instant the litigation hits the fan, they are done for. The evidence is overwhelming, and they know it.
Desperate psychojabberwocky, eh Johnny? Nice defense. See you at the trial. Pandoc, the prosecutor
Response:
At some point (perhaps very soon) matters must be put in train. The instant the litigation hits the fan, they are done for. The evidence is overwhelming, and they know it.
You really ARE this stupid. Amazing! YOU wouldn’t recognize evidence if it spit in your face, John. Wally
Response:
Well!!!!!! [edit] What next, guys? subpoenas to Fred Shaw? Californ? Todd Miller? Peter Duesberg? Richard Strohman? Kary Mullis? Celia Farber? Bob Guccione Jr. John Lauritson?
Dave’s blade seems to have gone a little dull. Yes, Dave, negligent homicide is still a punishable offense. Especially when performed by the incompetent and incontinent to further their own personal little pecadillos. Gee, drugs toxic? Cost money? Big surprise! I guess you were born yesterday. Today there is no dissent in scientific circles of the medical community worldwide. Just a fulminating purulent desire by pustules like you to spue forth contamination. The heart of the law is mercy. Maybe you should beg. PANDOC
Response:
Dear Debbie If you have been reading the posts put up lately by w. fred shaw, you ought to happy as hell people with HIV are being denied treatment!!! It is OBVIOUS from these terrific postings ( God bless you, fred for your time and effort on this) that AIDS research is essentially in the control of jack-booted drug-company pimps who CAN’T WAIT to shove massive amounts of unproven expensive and dangerous chemicals down the throats of people who may well "non-progress" for the rest of their lives if they were left alone!!! Please, please, do not become yet another desciple of the let’s- drug-the-living-shit-out-of-them-until-they’re-out-of-money AIDs-think mentality Dave Blade
Response:
Perhaps John ought to look at the Lancet, Vol 349,
That well known reputable source of information about "Aids". With its illustrious contributors from the world of "Aids science". Why change a losing team? Now, if the Lancet editors had been a little more on the ‘qui vivre’, many lives would have been saved. Bet they are sorry now. This paragraph gives a classic example of my hypothesis concerning John’s mental state.
OOOh! More long-distance diagnosis! How I love these things. So, how’m I doin’, doc? [...] This form of delusional egomania is disguised by not mentioning himself by name, but in the distant third person only.
Who is this distant third person? Anyway, he’s off, and we’re in for a long haul here so I suggest a little game while he gets it out of his system. I will give you a line from an old movie, and you have to identify the movie, the profession of the speaker, and who wrote the screenplay. OK? Here we go. You can read this in a deep Viennese accent, if it helps: "Would you mind, Mr Martins, coming to the point? I have guests waiting." Americans reading John’s posts can only conclude that himself is a lunatic or worse, perhaps a homicidal pyschotic using mind-fuck techniques on the internet to lure the "vulnerable people" (as he like to think we positive
There are extra points if you can also remember the animal that is about to be consumed, and the activity for which the speaker’s profession is a cover. That’s five possible correct answers. More than three and you win. A possible sixth point if you provide even more information. John is himself the "deadly AIDS delusion" and I would recommend that henceforth those of us with filter capacity in our newsreaders place "himself" on the kill file list. Bye bye John.
I think he’s finished now. So, how did you do? John — "There is this terrible fear throughout the field that it will be discovered we have been walking down the wrong route all these years and advising people to do things which will turn out to be the wrong things. I think about quitting all the time." UK "Aids" industry worker’s letter to Neville Hodgkinson, author of _AIDS: The Failure of Contemporary Science_
Response:
Well!!!!!! It appears th treatment activist community is getting just a bit fed up with the uppity John Swineburn! The fangs are bared! Is Charlie McCarthy the ventriloquist or the dummy? Any relation to Joe? Threats of subpoenas! Wow! You vill accept our views und you vill like it! What next, guys? subpoenas to Fred Shaw? Californ? Todd Miller? Peter Duesberg? Richard Strohman? Kary Mullis? Celia Farber? Bob Guccione Jr. John Lauritson? Or perhaps a blanket suppoena covering all "dissidents " will do? Be careful what you wish for. Are you sure you want the current status quo of AIDS Inc. to start getting scrutiny in open court? You really don’t want things like death from liver toxicity from those "miracle" protease inhibitors to become general public knowledge, do you? Peter Duesberg becoming a household name? ( No doubt your worst nightmare) Now just relax, take a deep breath, tuck that subpoena in the bottom drawer, repeat after me; $15000 per year times 300,000 taking drug combos, $15000 per year times 300,000 taking drug combos…… Dave Blade
Response:
Something we have learnt in Britain is that the most important implication of no "Aids treatments" is no "Aids".
Perhaps John ought to look at the Lancet, Vol 349, April 12, 1997 at pp 1086-92 for the complete consensus statement of the British HIV Association guidelines for antiretroviral treatment of HIV seropositive individuals. It is clear that there is demonstrated benefit to longevity for people with HIV from antiretroviral treatment. They quote a "wide consensus amongst HIV-treating physicians in the UK" for antiretroviral therapy to be offered before substantial immunodeficiency ensues. Not to treat HIV is to run the risk of disease progression and likely death. John’s advice posted to this group is exceedingly misinformed and potentially dangerous. His attitude towards the HIV/AIDS pandemic is charaterised by denial and irrationality. His disregard for the facts and his distortion of evidence is a symptom of his losing grip with reality. Useless, unnecessary toxins pushed onto vulnerable people under the dishonest claim that they could fight "HIV" have caused the deaths of around 8,000 people in the UK. The toll would have been even higher but for timely dissident information in the press and on television, which warned the public away from engaging with the "HIV" superstition. In the more credulous United States, over a third of a million, mainly healthy, mainly homosexual victims have been damaged (most fatally) by these drugs.
This paragraph gives a classic example of my hypothesis concerning John’s mental state. Here we see that it is the "toxins" (treatments) that have caused the deaths of 8,000 in the UK. The truth is that AIDS-related diseases claimed the lives of those persons. The next claim is that his own dissent information has contributed to the death-rate decline in the UK. This form of delusional egomania is disguised by not mentioning himself by name, but in the distant third person only. You will all note John’s fixation on this issue when we refer to ourselves other than "I" in these posts. The last point in this exemplary para of paranoia is the 300,000 Americans who have been "fatally" damaged by drugs that have in fact been quite successful in reversing the death-rate of people with HIV/AIDS. Most Americans reading John’s posts can only conclude that himself is a lunatic or worse, perhaps a homicidal pyschotic using mind-fuck techniques on the internet to lure the "vulnerable people" (as he like to think we positive people are) to give up the treatments on the basis that HIV does not exist! Now that the true cause of "Aids" is recognised, the phenomenon is ancient history in the UK. It is expected that litigation on the corruption and incompetence behind the deadly "Aids" delusion will commence without excessive delay.
John is himself the "deadly AIDS delusion" and I would recommend that henceforth those of us with filter capacity in our newsreaders place "himself" on the kill file list. Bye bye John. AC Kirk
Response:
[edit] I have less and less fear that even the most panicked newbie on this list would actually listen to him, and forgo real doctors’ advice on hos best to deal with HIV infection. Would you take the advice of a man who posts anonymously, with no indication of his credentials, and an obvious inability to understand even rudimental scientific and medical vocabulary? Not even the most desparate and troubled, I would think. Denial and tendencies towards self-destruction rarely go so far as taking John Swineburn seriously.
Denial, self-destruction, and ignorance are getting many infected, and keep many from seeking intervention and prophylaxis. Even if deaths were rare from the perverted propaganda, only one is necessary to constitute murder. In this business we try to never to neglect the individual. It is not permitted to be harmful to others for the sake of one’s own convenience. From this you get, you do what’s right and not what you can get away with. Johnny will not always be getting away… supenas have a way of reaching netservers of anonymous criminals all the time. Good luck and good hunting, Charlie Charles P. McCarthy Clinical Specialist and Professor Emeritus International School of Pantherapeuticological Medicine Carmichael, CA USA NON LICET SUI COMMODA CAUSA NOCERE ALTERI
Response:
He knows exactly what he is doing. If he really believed anything he said, he’d sign his real name. I think he must be genuinely afraid that someone will find out who he is, and deliver a pack of his murderous advice to those who sign his paychecks or buy his brushes. That’s not an irrational mind, that’s the mind of a con man or a criminal.
Premeditated murder pretty much covers it. Charles P. McCarthy, Clinical Specialist Healthcare Consulting and Medical Research Carmichael, CA USA "There shall be a trial." Pandoc
Response:
John is himself the "deadly AIDS delusion" and I would recommend that henceforth those of us with filter capacity in our newsreaders place "himself" on the kill file list.
Unfortunately, my program doesn’t have killfile properties. I simply pass over anything with the rubric ‘himself’. However much time I have left on earth, it’s not enough to waste the seconds it takes reading his falsifications, delusions, and diatribes. He has no understanding of science — or human nature either, for that matter — and has never contributed anything but rehashes of other dissidents’ rehashes of two or three discredited theories put forth more than a decade ago. I have to disagree with your suggestion that he is irrational. He knows exactly what he is doing. If he really believed anything he said, he’d sign his real name. I think he must be genuinely afraid that someone will find out who he is, and deliver a pack of his murderous advice to those who sign his paychecks or buy his brushes. That’s not an irrational mind, that’s the mind of a con man or a criminal. I have less and less fear that even the most panicked newbie on this list would actually listen to him, and forgo real doctors’ advice on hos best to deal with HIV infection. Would you take the advice of a man who posts anonymously, with no indication of his credentials, and an obvious inability to understand even rudimental scientific and medical vocabulary? Not even the most desparate and troubled, I would think. Denial and tendencies towards self-destruction rarely go so far as taking John Swineburn seriously. MMM
Response:
[...] The report looks at which treatments people have been denied access to, and related issues including tests such as viral load and CD4; gives information as to the geographical locations of reported denial, examines the reasoning behind such decisions and discusses the implications.
Something we have learnt in Britain is that the most important implication of no "Aids treatments" is no "Aids". Useless, unnecessary toxins pushed onto vulnerable people under the dishonest claim that they could fight "HIV" have caused the deaths of around 8,000 people in the UK. The toll would have been even higher but for timely dissident information in the press and on television, which warned the public away from engaging with the "HIV" superstition. In the more credulous United States, over a third of a million, mainly healthy, mainly homosexual victims have been damaged (most fatally) by these drugs. Now that the true cause of "Aids" is recognised, the phenomenon is ancient history in the UK. It is expected that litigation on the corruption and incompetence behind the deadly "Aids" delusion will commence without excessive delay. John — "There is this terrible fear throughout the field that it will be discovered we have been walking down the wrong route all these years and advising people to do things which will turn out to be the wrong things. I think about quitting all the time." UK "Aids" industry worker’s letter to Neville Hodgkinson, author of _AIDS: The Failure of Contemporary Science_
Response:
Something we have learnt in Britain is that the most important implication of no "Aids treatments" is no "Aids".
Gee golly Juohnny I’m sure glad everyone in Britan has "learnt" this amazing discovery of yours….why don’t you expand it a little and close down the whole corrupt British Health Care system, saving all of you Brits endless amounts of taxes. No cancer treatments is no cancer No heart disease treatments is no heart disease No diabetiic treatments is no diabeties No mental illness treatment is no mental illness You should be real familiar with the last one! Roger Lipsey just a ripple on still water
Response:
Following a campaign about people being denied treatments for HIV and AIDS, the Terrence Higgins Trust, along with the Africa Advocacy Foundation and the AIDS Treatment Project has produced a report on its findings. The report looks at which treatments people have been denied access to, and related issues including tests such as viral load and CD4; gives information as to the geographical locations of reported denial, examines the reasoning behind such decisions and discusses the implications. A copy can be obtained by calling the Trust on 0171 831 0330 (Vijay Kumari, Lisa Power) or view the report at: http://www.tht.org.uk/denial.htm Debbie Lampon — Debbie Lampon http://www.tht.org.uk